01/01/2011
There was in the community such a great love for the truth. Can we imagine because that was something bad in it also?
As creatures of the perfect God, we strive for perfection (perfection). We are called to be perfect and holy as it is God. But unfortunately we are still imperfect. It is sad. This can sometimes make me angry: Why we are only as weak? Anyway, we are just down the road to perfection and sometimes we make mistakes or sin. We sin as individuals, but as interdependent beings we sin as a community of Christians. It may be hard to believe or accept, but if honest look at our community and the fruits of their activity both within and outside the community, we must admit that not everything was holy, loving and compassionate.
In terms of the individual, it was clear in my opinion, but was in relation to the community taught that we are the Church and the Church is the pillar of truth - infallible. For God is with His Church. But why all forms of church in the past shown that they imperfectly were? I suspect, because everyone - except Jesus - are imperfect. If GH or Joseph or anyone else completely in the community? Of course not. Everyone can make a mistake and the close links between them can thus also the community as a whole make a mistake.
The search for the truth was good, but the truth is not defined by what means our community below.
Comments:
1.1.2011:
RA: I was in this community.
I would compare the behavior of our community with a hockey game.
Our exclusions were as time penalties in ice hockey: player, who broke the rules, had for two minutes in the Zeitstrafenbox (penalty box) and could then return to the game.
In our community there were some who were expelled several times and then came back.
is the crucial difference that you have in hockey in this way a good opportunity to relax and know that you can go back into the game.
in the Community will be sent as Excluded to a rather unfriendly place - in principle will be sent to hell. And as we know it - we never knew the time when (if ever) we saved from this situation were.
Some of us had the wonderful opportunity to spend some time in to remain the Zeitstrafenbox - in a corner of our living community as a pet. Some were with the greatest compassion towards them thrown (in the heart of Mt 18.22: not seven times assigned, but seventy times seven): perhaps he will repent and come back (in order to defend the holiness of life and immediately inform the other excluded, as perhaps I ).
Yes, I think our love of the truth sometimes seemed a few degrees too seriously and was sometimes rather be compared to the battle of gladiators than hockey. If you are not excluding others, others will exclude you.
If the community carries on with this game, then ... Your Excluded: Let us bet who will be the last of the Mohicans, the true warrior for Christ.
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20:01:11: Anonymous (the text is in English original blog in German language and is here taken literally)
is not true that the Community infallible. Nevertheless, it is considered a pillar of truth, provided any endeavor in obedience. But is achieved in a given case because of disobedience or lack of effort an incorrect result, God will not allow it to stay long undetected. God will work hard to bring the truth to light. Moreover, most difficult to mathematically seen that if many independent intensive deal from each other on an issue or topic to a question is resolved satisfactorily and fulfilling that the result was wrong. The less conceivable in the fact of God's guidance in prayer and that each individual remains in the full sense of responsibility of his task.
like in the bitterness of exclusion and distance gained much different. New sins, and especially the influence of the world play a large role in the vision and dim them. So I ask you, dear brothers and sisters that your ex-beware of the thoughts, the truth does not contradict the community and give back to the wrong light. Self if we are separated from the body, we should cherish it and remember what we have failed and harmed by our disobedience.
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21.1.11: May God bless you, Anonymous: RA.
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21.1.11 L (author) writes:
Dear Anonymous,
I do not know if your comment relates primarily to the comments or on my original post. But your statement raises some thoughts and questions.
You write that God will reveal it soon, even if the community has once got into a misunderstanding. But how was it possible that the church of the first centuries had lost the right way and wrong was when God is so very hard to make sure the truth comes to light?
Furthermore you mean that Christians get the UN dependent on each other to the same insights. But in the community, we were very dependent on each other. There was scarcely time to think about anything UN-dependent. And if someone came to a different insight than the Community, he quickly became convinced back or excluded.
Sure, some came to similar insights before they joined the Community. But many changed their opinions because of the influence of the community. Outside the community, there are many who God and seek to obey His Word. They come to insights that differ from those of the community, but they share with many others. So how can we say LENS, one of them is right? When both groups of Christians to seek to know God and neighbor and to love. but in certain points, such as the permissibility of marriage, disagree?
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21.1.11: L (author):
Sure, there are now (in my case, translator's) some distance from the community. But I do not claim that it is necessarily bad. Some things you see from a distance better than too close.
respect the Body of Christ, he is probably more complicated than the community teaches, not so uniform Rather, it consists of Christians who care for different lifestyles and tackle the task and mission of love in different ways that fit better to their culture and their people . Of course, the love of Jesus and His truth is central.
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21.1.11: RA:
over the mathematical probability and divine guidance:
sectarian movements like the "Discworld" by Terry Pratchett contact the following rule: The chance of a to one million will arrive in nine out of ten cases.
regard: "God is there, intensely" If
understand these sects as a rotation axis of the divine truth (pillar and foundation of truth), then anything can happen unbelievable.
The Bible had been for a myriad of sects used as justification. This all think that only they finally understand the Bible correctly, that only they are right and all the others are wrong without question.
There is nothing special that we think we are right. But it is "not mathematically compelling," if only the handful of Christians should have in our community and all other rights are wrong. For further thoughts on
look at my site:
http://sites.google.com/site/holicgroup
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22.1.11: Anonymous:
What happened in the first centuries, we do not know. God did everything possible to protect them. Ultimately, it depends on each themselves whether a church is the Church of God or not. Some sins cause a false development.
In my experience I have had sufficient time to think for myself, read, or pray. I can not complain because to have something missing. In my experience, there was no provision on this point and everyone was able to create for himself according to his needs and desires. But of course We encouraged each other to have fellowship, for it was our intention to share.
"He was convinced back or eliminated?"
I often disagreed and fought for years for my misunderstanding, not to be excluded. Sure, after many years with my lack of self-criticism became increasingly obvious dishonesty. So I was excluded. That was a correct decision of the Church. And I think in the other cases, the church acted properly.
If many have changed in relation to the community, it was dishonest, and their fault.
Heb. 12, 4-8
I am grateful for the love of siblings. For only with their help I was able to find the right knowledge in many ways and turn to her. I regret that I have not been obedient in everything, but headstrong and confident.
"Even outside the community there are many who seek God and obey His Word. They come to insights that differ from those of the community, but they share with many others. "???????????
Those who, like Peter, have given up everything (Mt 13, 44-46), their lives are going to share with others who have given up everything to follow Christ and to meet the new bids. The examples we find in the Bible. Why should today be any different? The rich man in Luke 18, 18-30 in fact we do not find the right path and knowledge before he was unwilling to give up his "idol". The task is: to deny oneself. The Spirit is given only to those who give up everything as it calls Jesus. Jn 14, 16-16.
I have spent much time outside the community. But the brotherly love, though not perfect, was always a sign of the truth. Even today in the distance I can still feel a small part of that love. There is neither the world nor anything like it in any so-called church, even if I have very nice parents and many biological siblings and some friends. But no one cares about me so try and be as good a to set an example, as then, the siblings in the community.
Many want to go with all his might into the kingdom of God without wearing the right clothes.
Mt 11, 12 (Luke 16:16)
Matthew 22, 1-14
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22.1.11 RA:
A similar form of fraternal love and high commitment you will find, for example, in the "International Church of Christ" or in other sects. But I would not recommend going there.
Yes, I am told that I could just think a lot. For I had, even during my membership in the community were not working and studying.
It may be that I and others sometimes describe anything too gloomy. It is good that you give here some counterweight, Anonymous.
But I think it was quite stressful for those who studied and worked. They did not have enough free time and therefore little power to think independently.
But in my case: If I had certain doubts about the teaching of the community or their decisions, they tried me systematically on their urgent nature to convince.
only one example of how this happens in the community: I was walking with someone (usually carried out every evening walks in pairs), which convince me back to specific questions to the group opinion wanted. He did so in vain. I thought, "Well that is me at this point no longer bother you, but accept that I have a different opinion."
But it was quite different: the discussions on the walks the next few days were about the same subject, only with other people. have
And even with the Weekend excursions with others who knew nothing about me, but somehow heard of my difference of opinion had been "happily" present the talk to convince me that my other opinion is wrong.
It was not very pleasant to lie so under constant fire from all sides.
can therefore be someone who was never in the Community imagine that it is better for my psyche to bring the beginning of the few ideas in themselves, are not in line with the thinking of the community. It
there is no freedom to think independently. This supposed "freedom" there is a farce.
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24.1.11: Anonymous:
I'm very surprised about the low access of my former brothers and sisters on the way in which many of you on the Church in this blog and speak on some other sites, rather than himself to fight deep humility and deep roots and origins of your sins Found that led to exclusion. Only this can help so that you keep in touch with God. Not the church is to blame but ourselves, it is not our job to criticize and denounce the community, although not everything was good. We were all at that time the church and therefore responsible. Now we can only affect our own lives!
similar fraternal love?
Who has to give up everything to follow Christ, to serve one another?
To give daily community?
to share everything?
To fight holiness?
To fight for the sanctity of the siblings?
To fight for the people? To
unit to fight in the teaching?
To persevere in difficult situations?
self-denial for my own benefit!
long arduous journeys to do some overnight, to meet the brothers and sisters?
....
....
you've forgotten it all?
You say that love is there similar but advised me not to go there?
Is it love if you can not do it recommend?
your experience, you can also see with different eyes, with the spectacle of love, which requires first the good times (1 Cor 13, 7). There was so much love and concern for your life, so many were interested in speaking with you, to share their thoughts and insights. If I had recognized something and knew it was another unknown, I wanted to help him with zeal. This happened because of good motivation, maybe sometimes not so wise, but out of a good attitude.
... and when the siblings helped me, they helped me find the real freedom. A freedom on a higher level than what one usually sees in the world below.
John 8, 36
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24.1.11 RA:
Anonymous: "You say that love is there similar but advised me not go there to go?
Is it love, if you do not can you recommend? "
RA Yes, it is not love the way it is described in Mt 5, 38-48 and 1 Corinthians 13, and why I would recommend anyone to go there. My arguments against this kind of love you can find on my website that you may have already read.
you will answers to your questions received in the last posting, for example, if you learn about the International Churches of Christ (ICOC) reads, for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/
wiki / International_Churches_of_Christ
You will then see the same effort: the struggle for holiness, unity.
Of course it is no 1:1 copy of our community. But if you have more than other sects are reading, you realize that the characteristics that determine the understanding of love in our community, not so unique. The ICOC bases its teaching on Acts 2: 42-47. I quote once from the (English) Wikipedia article on the ICOC:
"The ICOC is based on the above findings, the following passages: Acts 2: 42-47, Lk 14th 25-27 and Mk 10, 17-22, which she understands so that it take to be a faithful disciple of Jesus, everything has to give up what you have. "
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24.1.11 RA:
Anoymous writes: "If I had recognized something and knew it was another unknown, I wanted help him with zeal. This happened because of good motivation, maybe sometimes not so wise, but out of a good attitude. "
RA Nobody is tired of praising themselves. Not even me. But I still think that we forgot in the community that God has the last word, not the community. Our intuition is not infallible. We like to think that we as a whole (Community, translator's) are true, but ... We also know from the Bible that God was even willing to destroy the entire people of Israel, which he had previously chosen for his own good plan.
Like I said: Whatever we may bind on earth shall not of God be bound in heaven. In other words, if we allow ourselves to be sure that God would stand behind us, whatever we do, we can easily stumble and get lost. The passage in 1 Tim 3, 15, is indeed already for many denominations have become a stumbling block. Even the Catholic Church. She finds in this place for yourself the excuse that the church is the foundation and not the BIBLE. Of course, this is a very simplistic explanation, but I think in this way, the problem begins: We emphasize too much that we are right. WE as the church established by God at the center. In fact, we then Christ behind us and have him as our base. It is
not a good position to repeat again and again and again, that WE are the pillar and foundation of truth. This has given us Jesus, but our community feels like our own realpolitik (also in English. Original in German, translator's) repressed. And nice Bible verses serve more as decoration and justification for our unnatural church center Pradigma.
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24.1.11 RA:
Anonymous writes: "If I had recognized something and knew it was another unknown, I wanted to help him with zeal . This happened because of good motivation, maybe sometimes not so wise, but from a good attitude out "
RA. Read those two sentences again: you praised even your own person. And sure, I understand that you not only bless you even want to. So I turned back to the attention of the entire community. For in your sets, I saw a connection between the church-centeredness and self-centeredness (egocentrism). Looking back, I would
your sentences as "reverse self-aggrandizement," see, the use for its purposes the authority of the community.
I think this kind of exaggeration was common in our community a lot. We auctioned in the idea that we are subject only correctly (that is, well I'm right) that we are not like the robbers, villains and adulterers (Luke 18, 11). This increase was not only within our community, but was visible to the outsider. They saw our arrogant attitude, which was hochpuscht with the resources of our community.
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24.1.11: L (author):
My answer about the criticism of the community can read a new post.
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02/06/2001: RA
the guidance of God
As I said, is to my understanding the community is not the guidance of God at work, but rather a machine that is fed by ideas that have been developed over several decades. Meanwhile, they seem to have lost control over the machine.
Originally times may all have been in order in the community, but now it seems like a sudden mutation of DNA that is wreaking havoc with the exclusion of a cancer is.
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