22nd 1st 2011
order to create some balance, I would just like to list what was good and what is bad in the community .
was good:
- Everyone was invited for participation and has encouraged - by teaching that every Christian is called to serve God and man, and not just the clergy
- the Bible study , the knowledge the right teaching , regarded as valuable and exercised (but in some detailed questions too strict and too demanding for the spiritually weak)
- frequent meetings to wake up, encourage admonish / and each other serve, to share life (but at the expense of all other relationships)
- opposite relationships, love any brother / sister, who walked the same path. Relationship has been established for each brother, not only to the sympathetic
- to Mission was encouraged and it was practiced (the contents of the message was not always in order: centered on the community instead of Jesus)
- devotion throughout life (but sometimes quite extreme)
- discipline, balance between bodily and spiritual: daily walks, rest after work / before the community time (only to uniform for all the same)
...
bad was :
- The Denaturation of personal (private) time. It was made very dependent on each other than from God. (I mean, it was considered bad if someone did not take part in joint activities, but wanted to be alone).
- that our lifestyle as the only possible for Christians was placed. Daily meetings and frequent travel are in poorer countries and for families with small children not affordable. And some have specific tasks to be fulfilled for certain groups (elderly, orphans, the homeless, addicts, the poor, prisoners, etc.) etc.
- extreme, loveless, dependent-making delimitation / separation of all outsiders, including his own family . They may not know our love.
- to tiring day routines . Since there were changes for the better: the walks became shorter, the topics on the weekend meetings were not addressed in the night etc.
- activities as the main measure of one's own efforts , physical weakness was sometimes missing will ( Literally: a lack of effort) is set equal.
Good theory, but poor implementation :
- no hierarchy, "all are brothers" - but then the special position of Gottfried H. (I rely primarily on the testimony of others I own it I personally know barely learned)
- the theoretical permission to marry (The theory of marriage is poor probably because of the lack of practical experience) - but in practice it was then prohibited a marriage close -> what the yoke was too hard for some and led to hypocrisy
- In the Apology was written that we are open - but in fact closed we learn to justified criticism and were not prepared by outsiders.
- the common struggle for sanctification - but sometimes we dealt with sins too much, too many things declared equal to sin familiar, not enough on the Self-assessment of each other and to God's work.
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Comments:
01/23/2011 RA
Yes, I see it as positive that we had no religious functionaries. The responsibility (the spiritual) was distributed agreeably wide. Actually, does our community in its own way.
Various church leaders with whom I spoke about it, I did not believe that anyone can become active when there is no boss at the top.
Gottfried Hs exclusion created a precedent that there can do no other than the "great leader" restaurant. He is past or later be dethroned.
But that does not mean that it is not but are people who actually are spiritual leaders, look up to the others. I myself have in the community often heard the argument: "But Joseph said ..." And when I'm in such a situation somewhat ironic smile, was blamed as a bad attitude. Joseph is "an older sibling, and therefore must be treated with respect.+++++++
23/01/2011; RA
I remember a case in Hungary, in KB, as a sister said with admiration: "It's fortunate that Joseph has not become a cardinal"
Yes, it was really hard to imagine a Catholic Cardinal Joseph I thought at the time. Because he fought at that moment just laboriously up the rope that hung from the ceiling.
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Comments:
25/01/2011 RA
Maybe my attitude is not good because I see these things critically.
But I do not think God wants we torture ourselves by constantly deep regret and fear of serious sin itself (which is probably waiting for our community).
I have met outside of the community people who like to reveal their sins and testify that they were now finally free from sin! And a little later I saw how they began and again that they had sinned so hard and now finally free of them were. etc. etc.
I have strong doubts whether this constant walking in a circle really is a battle for a holy life, God expects from us. It probably makes people crazy when they want it leads to God.
I would recommend the excluded to read Matthew 5, 38-48 and 1 Cor 13 :-))
For I have learned to me these scriptures have a lot of help. There, not only of conduct or external forms of God's love be described, but these passages show the central concept of God's love, that is FORGIVENESS. There, the characters are portrayed, that you can forgive. And if you can forgive, then God will also forgive you.
Whatever I have written to criticism, forgive me. Let us make peace ... And I really long for the happy day when I take all my friends and enemies in order to jointly drink tea with them and discuss how we can reconcile with each other, as we can love each other.
Joseph A., Gerald K., and all the "Anonymous" people who post here. You are welcome in my house. But I want to love you my address given in person by mail. My email address is on my homepage.+++++++++++
01/27/2011: Jose:
Hi, I would be interested to know how you feel at the time of God's grace. What do you think about it now?
On the subject of serious sins: I think we should avoid them, but always keep in mind that it is God above all the heart and not the outward behavior. Serious sins are merely the outward appearance of a weak heart. You are not a cause for one's self-improving, but should be reason enough to turn an honest to God, knowing that he loves us no matter what has happened and that for those who are in Jesus Christ, is no condemnation ( Romans 8, 1).
The problem is, in my opinion, often is that we if we sin, trying to change ourselves by the flesh rather than God frankly go and let the spirit of its gentle cleansing work to do in our hearts. All of this thought: God loves and forgives us, what we do. His grace is sufficient for us all.
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01/28/2011 RA
I do not remember if I have a lot of reflecting on God's grace. Of course, I remember several topics for discussion, when it came to the grace of God.
But I grew up in rather a strong sense that God's grace was more important to me, before I began, with the community dahinzujagen (1 Cor 9, 24-27). God's grace for me was step by step, always equal to the mercy of the community. Being a Christian was practically limited to membership in the community. (I think it sounds quite logical for me even now when someone tries to put the community with the only true church of the same.)
What I want to say most is how "fragile" the grace of God, when you see the common exclusions. They determined more and more my understanding of God's grace. It was for me more and more filled with conditions that could not understand. For in the community, there were some exclusions that were irrational to me.
And NOW - I'm just so fascinated by the biblical Mt 5, 38-48 and 1 Corinthians 13, that I find no words ... Some of this I have described in my website (http://sites.google.com/site/holicgroup/)
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28/01/2011 L (blog author):
the question of the grace of the next posting+++++++++
01/31/2011 Jose:
from RA
order to get to your comment on the grace of God back to the community: The understanding is very similar to that in the Roman Catholic. Church. The grace is only in the one true Church, which is transferred to the community: only in the community. So there is no real grace outside the community? This is similar to what the Catholic Church teaches. At least they taught it in the past. considered
From the Bible, it seems reasonable to say that God's grace is free (Eph 2, 8-9). So, if one combines the grace of God with conditions that destroy the Gospel and preaches another. Mine, at least I do. Even if the Scriptures support this view quite well, I know that I will not agree to most people there.
However, only the grace unite the Christian world. If you have the grace to understand why biblical basis, you understand the most important thing in this life.
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31/01/2011 RA
Yes, that's right. I would honestly say that I now THINK about grace. Or I do not know how to express it better ... I would not say what I think must be right, but I want to say which predominates in me just THINK or what I currently just FEEL.
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Put it this way: Even if the mindset of the community the grace in me is still widespread, but I know that I have to think through many new questions. My thinking was "formatted" by the community.
It sounds consistent to me that God's grace is free, as you say. But what does this mean? I need to find an answer.
My mind is just so "under construction". I must be logical, reasonable answers to many questions that asked me not earlier, for in the community, many things are not questioned.
After excluding I had many "outside of the cage" to learn on issues that were avoided in the community or who has made the community very happy to be able to handle these things and more easily refuted. And one of these questions is grace.+++++++
01/31/2011 RA
In other words, "My mind tells me that God's grace must be much more than what I have perceived in the community. But what does this mean? This is for me a question. I have to answer the follow up to their roots. But I fear I do not think through it again. After the exclusion, I feel more like an explorer of the world. Recently I have for me, the biblical Mt 5, 38-48 and 1 Cor 13 and discovered they have encouraged me enormously. I feel that these bodies are a key for me to unravel other issues, including the question of the grace of God. I would therefore like to make right now is not all good and ready made ideas about grace.+++++++++
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