03/18/2010
Many have this year been excluded from the community and in many cities there are now no longer living community.
I've heard that they say would have caused the lack of love.
Yes, they are right, they lack love. But the solution is not the exclusion of more and more siblings, but the inclusion of those who have been dismissed as hopeless. The love of the community would have to be extended to them.
Comments:
Anonymous: Some of us have some new Words introduced. One that I've heard, and fits very good, "Exclusion madness" (as in the original German English Blog / translator's) (from homo ludens) 09/06/2010
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anonymous: be careful! The so-called translation uses different tenses and words that change the original meaning. 08/15/2010
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author: Can you please point to the specific points of which you think that they have not been translated correctly? If you want to not write it here, send a private mail. 26/08/2010
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15:10:10
L (author) writes:
Puntus wrote "Can you write the text in question to me? I want to translate correctly, but I am not a trained translator.
course, I'll write you when I get the text.
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24/10/10: Anonymous writes: Here are two examples
how the translators changed the original blog, either by mistake or on purpose:
November 3, 2007 "group egoism"
" We are to assess, warn and Encourage each other and unbelievers. "
I would understand correctly: "We have to judge each other and non-believers to warn and encourage." But the
Translator writes: "We estimate there to warn each other and non-believers and encourage them."
"Even we are holy, we are not perfect yet, we ourselves are in a process of sanctification."
been changed in the past: "Even if we were holy, we were not perfect, we were in the process of sanctification."
The whole translation reflects more of a static point again as the changes in the subjective views of the author.
I agree with the view itself neither the translator nor agree with the author of the blog.
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5.1.11: RA
Anonymous: "We are to assess, warn and Encourage each other and unbelievers "
I would understand correctly". We have to judge each other and non-believers to warn and encourage "
RA. I speak neither English nor German as their mother tongue, but I do not know if Anonymous is translated correctly added. The word "have" appears here in the German to make sense. In English, the term "have" the importance of external duty, but the Germans I think, expresses "have" not made. But I do make mistakes. Maybe Anonymous speaks German better.
I see that Kluge has not translated word for word, but I do not see the reason why this is so bad that it here addressed. Still, it sure is
well to follow the translation carefully, Anonymous. The second comment from Anonymous about the time the form is quite relevant. Who knows, maybe you want to see Kluge L as someone who inwardly is still so closely tied to the time in the Community, that the blog author unachtsamerweise is translated as a spoke of the melancholy in the past.
a cause for this is clever description of the links on this blog:
"From his posts can be well the feeling of back-and-her-torn-existence between admiration for and understand criticism of the sect"
(Translator's note: In both cases was really an error in translation, but has since been corrected in consultation with the blog-author)
I am amazed at smart person.
I think he was never in the community, and I think his views on the community is distanced from his position and his experience with other "types of sects determined. But yet he seems to think the way things are in the community. His hypothetical assumptions sometimes accidentally hit the goal, but his inability to identify the most important things to understand the theology and lifestyle of the community to resolve uneasiness in me.
But what can we expect from a man whose (Catholic) Church is the most hotly contested of our community? I think he sincerely Moeche the former members of cults in general and it can help not only focus on a community. There are many sects and Kluge I wish that he continues. There are many sects in Germany to do so much.
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9.1.11: RA
I recently thought about how it can happen that Kluge has no information about the missionary activities among unbelievers, as it says on his website: "An atheist is not mission known.
I think this is partly due to Kluge's inertia, To search for more information on this subject and also because he is not able to draw the logical conclusion that the "promotional flyer" will certainly not only hung on the walls of church buildings.
But I think we should also remember that behind it our "efficient and anonymous" Mission Tactics: grab something and then run away without leaving fingerprints. Those who do not want us "on a common basis", have no information about us.
know why in my country, almost no one that this community was here over 10 years. No one knows that they were here and not there now. I
asked privately after once by a state agency for religious affairs, whether they know that this group was of Christians in our country. Nix. She knew as much as anyone else in my country.
So much for the "Light of the World", which must be seen from the infidels.
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10.1.11 RA:
The community lives in constant furrowing of persecution. Everyone wants to do her harm. But the prosecution may also be an excuse for not openly proselytize among religious people. There were some cases where our missionaries are revealed and we were asked not to do this in their church.
But why the Persecutory anxiety even when the missionaries on the street, where believers were? I was quite eager
in evangelization in my country and I can recall no persecution by those I spoke to on the street. But nevertheless, I have not invited the missionary work in our apartment (the "seat" of our community). Because in our community, there was the constant fear that this person might do something bad against us, such as abuse or ill-equipped our lifestyle. There were many similar types of fear there in our community.
There were certainly some precedents that parents were concerned and called the police because the contact with have lost their child, who had decided to live with siblings and no "common ground" was more with them (the parents) to talk. But the background of fear (in my country) is not the hostility of unbelievers against Christianity in general, but especially against our community (because of the above reasons).
I well remember my first experience in the mission: I was amazed at how friendly my countrymen were living safely in a pretty secular country when I worked as a missionary on the street. If you read the comments in the newspapers, they are sometimes sarcastic, but talking face to face Most of them are very kind to you. So it can
would be no reason for this phobia - and other denominations missionary work publicly.
The real reason the fear was that we knew how strange our faith and life had to act on infidels. The charge: "You would not understand our reasons for faith and spiritual life" is a very important feature of sectarian behavior.
Christians living in a tolerant extraordinary time in Europe. Even though their most peculiar beliefs to be considered in the worst case, with sarcasm. This is not comparable to periods of European history, were killed for their faith as Christians.
I think if our community not just now able to open, is responsible, there will never be a better chance of doing so.
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10.1.11 RA:
I encourage the community to open up, because it seems they do not notice, closed as it is and always will be closed.
The website of our community is not something that somehow signaled openness. They mention only the first names of the authors.
http://sites.google.com/site/testtaize1/ is on the website being closed nor aggravated by several degrees. There are no names and no information who is behind the papers.
The isolation is also reflected in our social behavior, as I have previously explained. I think the community has become accustomed to such an anonymous appearance that they do not find it strange to live like an animal in a secret crevice. All external contacts are broken. You have the feeling the only reason to live open, because the channels of internal communication are open.
The loss affects not only the number of members of our community. The restriction on the internal communication without input from outside the English language has degenerated in our community. You probably do not know on what level your English is.
is one reason I think that in our community, the English native speakers in the minority. But English is the lingua franca in most countries where our community is represented.
The second reason is that there are only a limited number of topics about which we speak. We mostly just talk about spiritual things when we are on the weekend meeting and speak English rather than our mother tongue must.
I began in the community to learn English. I could not communicate in that language. But after a few months ago I could understand everything about what we discussed. And I could about the things you wanted to hear from me (About my spiritual state, sins, etc.) speak without difficulty.
They asked me repeatedly whether I understood what they discussed during the theme. But this was no reason. The reason why I had mastered the language so quickly, was not in my language ability, but because the vocabulary of "community standard language was extremely simple and easy to acquire left. I think the relatively high standard of theological conversations was diminished by the very simple language.
Sure, there are in every religion an internal voice and internal habits, which are also not always easy to see inside. But, in my assessment that in our community much more pronounced. As another has written in this blog, we created new words. And as I stated earlier, we knew well-known words like "love" with a new meaning that was understood only by insiders. Also, the word "human" (human) was a strongly negative meaning for us. should be "human" is not something to which we aspire. For our "spiritual training" means any "human" useless. We do not have to train the "human" muscles, but the religious (spiritual). "Human" was something of useless fat, which we wanted to be free from our spiritual Training, draining our life and the struggle for holiness.
why I see the danger: if the Community continues with its phobia against external attacks, they will soon no longer be able to make the other course in the world. And the reason lies not in the spiritual blindness of the outer "human world", but in the internal deformation, degeneration of their language and the lack of topics about which you can get with the "human world" into the conversation.
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10.1.11: L (writer: RA
writes that we invited for fear no one in our apartment
Yes, we had. in no hurry to tell about each of our lifestyle, but now and then we invited missionary work in our apartment. Certainly there was no sense to invite someone if it was just a conversation on the street or at a religious meeting without a further meeting was in prospect. But if we had met several times and had exchanged e-mails that are done already. If
then once at the end of a brother came home from work, he began with a conversation with someone on the bus (the community) and then came together with the home.
Once we came from a weekend meeting with public transport back early in the morning and invited a foreigner (which we in the bus taken) had a to sleep in our apartment until their next driving opportunity went home. Sure, she was also interested, to talk with us.
I agree that there is enormous religious freedom in our countries. And me on the secrecy of the community seemed very strange.
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10:01:11 RA:
I agree with L that there were exceptions here. But that was quite rare. While I was in the community did not happen in my country. Sure, I was only a year long in the community, but if during that year not a single case like it did L mentioned, was, says quite a bit. I was not the only active missionary in our community (in my country). Therefore, I do not trust me to the conclusion that my (obviously subjective) opinion, not simply on a misunderstanding of the mission is based practices, but more in line with the opinions of community stood.
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10:01:11 L (author):
Yes, there were few native English speakers and topics rather limited. But I felt that English is not a particularly simplified. Sure who had never learned English, did not reach particularly high levels. But those who spoke better English tried to remedy this: by correcting errors, etc. I think
, RA has a talent for languages.
regard to the "human". I remember making a distinction between "human" and "humane". One was the opposite of "spiritual" (ie, within the meaning of "carnal" or "secular", translator's), the other positive thing. But it was not brought often.
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10:01:11 RA:
"But if we had taken more frequently or exchanged e-mails, it did once before."
I think at this point, I myself am an example that removes some myths about the community. I will only mention two of them.
first Kluge's ignorance of the mission infidels. I grew up in a totally secular environment. None of my immediate family was religious. Not even me.
second In relation to the sentence I have quoted above, I would like to describe how I came to the Community: A missionary once had a conversation with me. Then we exchanged by e-mail from us. Then there was a long pause and then I took up the contact by writing a letter. All this lasted about a year, I guess.
During that time I never got the idea to ask one by mail, which was this missionary community. While this time I won a picture of his person or his background. Well, you could say that was my fault. But it was not remarkable even in his view that he never gave me during this year said something about his community background?
So forget the myth of openness. I know about this missionary too much. He was a foreigner and was sent to our country with the mission of evangelization. So he was well versed in the applicable mission tactics.
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10:01:11 L (author):
Sure, we all were "missionaries" with the mission to evangelize.
I'm not saying that we were open. But we were not closed as it describes RA.
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10:01:11 RA:
L wrote: "As regards the" human ". I remember making a distinction between "human" and "humane". One was the opposite of "spiritual" (ie, within the meaning of "carnal" or "secular", translator's), the other positive thing. But it was not brought often "
RA.'s Exactly what I wanted to say. HUMANE was seen as negative. He was not seen positively as you say. Behind our disgust contrasted with the image of society of the Enlightenment, based on humanistic Ideas was established. We saw it primarily as individualistic and tolerant society, which is the exact opposite of what our community seeks.
(later): I corrected myself: I think our community is the opposite of the idea of a humanistic society.
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10:01:11 RA: Here is an excerpt from the apology of Josef Aufreiter, which proves that "humane" is not viewed positively in our community. The italics are mine. And remember, we talk about "human" (human) and "humanist", not "inhuman"
"Theology without striving for holiness is blasphemy. The pure concentration on leading an ethical life, without it being connected with a theological basis, leads to a humanistic approach and away from God "
" Humanistic "here has a clear negative tone. Any other approach than that of the Bible is viewed negatively, because we considered that these concepts are always connected to other concepts that are not good.
Again, I think I know the reason for such thinking. Nevertheless, I doubt that most people in our world, its theoretical basis are aware of. "Humanistic" and "people" are more become synonyms for it, kind, generous and so to be. If the truth is monopolized by the community, but is the language of common ownership of the company and can not be monopolized by them.
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10:01:11 RA:
L wrote: "Sure, we all were" missionaries
RA "with a mandate to evangelize." Sure, if there was a "missionary" in the understanding, which is also common in other Christian denominations, then he was. It did not happen in my country and look what happened (as we usually do it). He was on a task set, because he was intelligent, articulate and he was in my opinion, unusual in the point that he had a charisma, a certain enthusiasm. In short, he had exactly the features that characterize a missionary in the general understanding.
I do not claim that the Missionarssein is intended only for certain Christians. I just want to say that these missionaries had an x-any guy like everyone else. Far from it. will
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10:01:11 RA
I know I can as far as I explain: the community will understand their meaning anyway.
Let me clarify say: Yes, every Christian is called and sent to do missionary work. But in the same way we send some people to buy food for the weekend (and not to evangelize). In the same way that missionary was sent out, we are discussing. He was abroad evangelize sent with the specific task and to keep an eye on our brothers and sisters have - and not just with the task of shopping for food or just a partner for us to be, because we were fed up of siblings, all of only country people were.
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10.1.11: RA writes: not
The purpose of my apologetic description of our community is free from Hatred and contempt. I express my concern that the community is on the verge of crisis. I would like my opinion does not read as the absolute truth on this subject. But I've named the reasons why I think the way I think.
You'll also see that I do not think through all my posts to show enough love for my opponents who hold a different opinion than I do. Oh, I really love the experience, how great God's love for me. I still need to grow so much in love.
seems to be the moment it impossible to love our enemies, to love the community in this way, for me that she and everyone is in the same way can learn how it is described in Mt 5, 38-47. And it is true that this is impossible for humans - but not for God. In this the love of God is different from the world too.
Really wonderful, unbelievable. It is hard to love our enemies. And not just because the enemies themselves can not love each other. Flipped: This is the best opportunity to practice the love that is described in 5 mt. Because of our own attitudes, our lack of grace, it is hard to love our enemies.
It is difficult to acquire the attitude, the effect is described in 5 mt. This positive attitude has the result that is described in 5 mt. She does not forget to pray for those haunt us (Mt 5, 44), which ALL of us realized how we can read in 5 mt. And then we may try to say "truth" and to "evaluate" them when we need them as necessary. If the principle is necessary, because to judge the enemy is nothing special, we can identify it with love. It is quite easy to "judge" your enemy and him "to tell the truth." It is easy. This is the first response that comes from human behavior.
We know how much injustice in the world and in ourselves. This is not new. The good news is that God has shown us the love reach us before even one of us was worthy of them.
Let's do something special: Let us try to practice again and again along the impossible love? I think it is good to start with the one who seems to love us the most impossible, with which we have no "common ground", because:
"And if you salute your brethren only, what do you do it more than others? Do not even the Gentiles "(Mt 5, 47)
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01/10/2011 RA writes:
I would take as an object of my love, my former community, and then Gerald Kluge. And I think Gerald Kluge would mean former joint select (and then maybe me?)
;-) I hope that we find common ground in the love of Jesus. That really would be a powerful sign for the unbelievers, that God still works miracles.
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11/01/2011: RA writes:
For me it is the biggest challenge to love, the love of Jesus is mostly influenced by the experience, as the tables of the money changers and the chairs of the pigeon seller upset.
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